bjoernvold.com

I'd like to discuss this openly. I understand negative viewpoints politically. There's nothing good going on there for sure. My question is this:

When it comes to things like Open Source software or proprietary software, must we hate anything that's proprietary? I've seen a few good things come out of the proprietary world over the years, and it just feels to me like we're not being objective enough when it comes to things like that. It's like our forum has branded it as "instant hate" - Apple, M$, other things too. I realize the purpose of the forum is to promote Open Source/Linux/Unix, but does that mean we have to have an instant hate attitude towards anything else?

What do you think?

Just curious.

Ded.

Autocad is proprietary and great software. Windows is half OK. Apple I dunno I am not stupid enough to spend all that money just to find out.

must we hate anything that's proprietary?

No of course not.

...and it just feels to me like we're not being objective enough when it comes to things like that.

Thank you for sharing your feelings. I think you are the one that has expressed your views in the most eh.. undiplomatic terms regarding that. I like the new objectivity approach!
I have a problem with your level of precision though. You speak of instant hate towards proprietary software and mention Apple and MS as examples. Those are companies. They make good and bad software I guess. Their business practice and attacks against Linux, can be heavily criticized - and they have been - by me and others.
There is always room for opposition and I welcome it. But it seems that no one feels called to pick up the glove in defense of MS and Apple.
R-Head disagrees with me on the issue of tablets/OS and that is great and enhances the discussion. I don't think the two of us are on the same page regarding privacy either - which is fine!
There is no instant hate here towards software AFAICT. We even have Windows Tips and Tricks and this.
But I get your point:
If a Windows enthusiast enters this forum he will probably consider this a hostile environment. He would be most welcome though!
We always welcome good arguments - even if we disagree. The tolerance and respect will be the same as for anybody else.
In fact I think we need someone like that....
Even if I seriously doubt that he will be able to change my mind about that stupid patent war - which needs the software to be proprietary.
But I will be able to take the same ironic jokes regarding Linux as we make regarding Windows (pretty rough - but fair is fair).

As far as I am concerned Microsoft is leaching of other peoples work (Android), and that is totally objective ....feel free to disagree with me.......

Maybe it's the complaints of MS attacks against Linux that I'm seeing. It seems there's more of it than actual promotion of Linux. Yes, I am one who hates MS software and hardware, but I also think a good way to strike back is with more positivity and points about Linux, rather than complaints about the other guy every time ... ?

And no, we don't disagree so much as you think on the privacy issue. I just take it a step further and realize that there is a lot we can take into our own hands and do to prevent it that I don't see a lot doing - I see a lot of people on the internet and other places not taking one single step to protect themselves, yet bitching all the time that they're listened to and virused/trojanned up.

I think we should be promoting ways to deal with it more. It's one thing to complain about it, which I guess is fine, but quite another to take actions to protect ourselves, and discussing them. We are not completely powerless yet (although someday we could very well be). Actions speak very loudly.

Y'know, it's funny. We have employees and students both at colleges who don't even so much as install an AV to Windows, then when they get virussed up, moan and moan and moan... it boggles my mind.

Colleges, when one wants a simple decent browser like firefox on the school computers, come back with, "The school officially supports Microsoft", then when problems happen because of it, they're all over IT to fix it. IT looks at them and tells them to either do something different, put up safeguards, or stfu. Do they listen? Of course not.

I think you are making valid points.
It is always a better strategy to point out your own strong points than ditching the "enemy". But sometimes a comparison is inevitable, that is when we need the good arguments rather than "go Linux" or "go Windows" (fanboism).
Responding to attacks like "Linux is cancer" and "Linux is Communism" does not command a to strict restrain on the answers though. In any case I am convinced that far more communists use Windows than Linux

Balmer is using those labels to decimate Linux as much as possible - the point he wants to make is forgotten and hidden behind the rude labels.
The equivalent would be; "Windows is dictatorship".
After that label your arguments won't matter much - it is the label that sticks.
This is a small excuse for hot tempered Linux enthusiasts going over the top sometimes. They did not pick that low level of argumentation; Microsoft's CEO did!
But I would agree with you that it is mud-wrestling and that it is better to avoid it.
Revealing Micorosft's strategies and exposing them for what they are with a sharp touch of Irony can be OK though - it is frustrating to see how MS mixes up teaching and propaganda.
It is equally OK to state that Windows is better on HW detection.
But making points on behalf of MS is not that needed - their view is the dominant one. So presenting and defending Linux is a noble task IMHO.
Because it is the best - I do believe in efficiency and I can understand everyone that picks the OS that does the best job for him.

We just have to make sure that he knows that he has a choice....

100% agree (except that Windows could in any way be better on HW detection - I think it's pretty well fact that it isn't).

I don't mind one bit seeing fact vs fiction. There literally are things that Linux is better at. So much better would it be stated as fact, rather than as a slam on anyone else. It's just all things that I've been thinking a lot about lately is all.

Anyone else care to jump in on this one?

( *thinks to self, wow, school must really be getting to me lately...)

Linux can be a sweetheart of hardware detection if the manufacturers put a little bit more of effort supporting Open Source in general.

MS is good at that for one reason, the hardware vendors support MS; not the other way around.

Apple? Well, they lock you in with one Hardware and one OS.
Is so, so, so close, that tighter than a Duck's butt hole.

The so call hate is more about the Lemmings that buy their crap, gullible people, victims of advertisement

Oh, I don't think they're a bit better than Linux, if anything they're much worse. I never met a Windows that I didn't have to spend 12 hours downloading drivers for after installing. Some "hardware detection". Some drivers one even has to pay for.